you come to the conclusion that marriage is, in fact, a fundamental right, then certain things follow. then it cannot be left up to the states. as recently as may the president's position was that the states, individual states, should decide who should be allowed to marry one another. well, if you're going to take -- follow that logic, i guess states should be allowed to decide that people of different races shouldn't be allowed to marry one another either. now, i don't think anybody really believes that, and so if you have come to this point, then it's either/or. it's either a fundamental right or it is not. >> i think if you listen to the president's words carefully in may, that he said that he thought we were making progress with this state-by-state approach, and i think ron is right. he tried to nuance it a little bit in advance of the election and not quite go as far as he's gone now, but i think with this justice department filing yesterday and his remarks in the press conference today, the president is on record, it could not be -- he could not be any more clear about it, that he believes that all americans should be guaranteed the right to marry no matter where you live regardless of sexual orientation. >> gentlemen, thank you -- >> would you welcome a little more enthusiasm though? >> thank you, richard -- >> i'm totally fine with his enthusiasm as it stands right now. >> all right. >> thank you, richard. thank you, ron reagan.